Yuen Kay San Wing Chun vs Weng Chun

Updated: Jul 15

Both Yip Man and Yuen Kay San have the same source, Dr. Leung Jan. We can clearly see it in their three hand forms. We do not know where these three hand forms originated from. My guess is that they may have been created by Dr. Leung Jan from what he had learned from the techniques taught on the Red Boat. Fung Siu Ching on the other hand taught Tang Suen ,from my lineage, the Red Boat Dummy. Fung was the student of the opera performer Dai Fa Min Kam.

Tang Suen was the father of my Sigong Tang Yik and he loved martial arts. Tang Suen traveled around to meet with other well know Weng Chun (Eternal Spring) practioneeres during his time (see my lineage tree). One of the persons he met with was Fung Siu Ching as he was well known at that time. Tang Suen and Fong Siu Ching traded ideas and Fong Siu Ching taught Tang Suen Red Boat Dummy and his Jong Kuen, which is said to have been created by Fong Siu Ching himself.


We in the Weng Chun (Tang Family) wonder what Fong Siu Ching actually taught Yuen Kay San. Because Yuen Kay Son does not have the Red Boat dummy or anything even close to it, which is puzzling. It is thought that Fong Siu Ching must have not taught Yuen Kay Son anything, which is possible. A lot of master did not want to cross styles.

ON the other hand, Fong Siu Ching Dummy and the original Tang family dummy are very close in techniques. The source is very clearly seen from the 2 dummy forms. The source of the Tang family is Monk Chi Sim and the Source of the Red Boat dummy is also Chi Sim. Chi Sim traveled and stayed on the Red Boat for sometime as the Red Boat opera were a rebellious Opera group who would have not turned over Chi Sim to government soldiers. It make since why he would have gone there to be hidden by the opera. Chi Sim traveled a lot so that he was not in one place too many years. Another place he travels to was Fai Lo Temple. This is where Tang family learned from Chi Sim and learned the Weng Chun Kuen Form along with what we call the Tang Dummy. The Weng Chun Kuen is a single form that has the entire system embedded within.

The Weng Chun Kuen form and Fung Siu Ching's dummy are very closely related. They are like two sides of a the same coin. I mean the techniques from the Weng Chun Form and the Fung Siu Ching dummy are the same. The Tang dummy and Fung Siu Ching's dummy are not exactly the same sequences but both the forms are related to the hand form Weng Chun Kuen. Within the Weng Chun Kuen form both of these dummies are present.


Yuen kay son, on the other hand, is totally different, actually more closely related to Dr. Leung Jan line. Sifu Lam Tao, Chum Q, Biu Jee etc. Yip Man did not learn the dummy or Biu Jee so it makes since that after he went to HK he created his own dummy after watching masters like tang Yik at Dai Dok Lan market.


The understanding from our Weng Chun Kuen and Dr. Leung Jan three forms are totally different in rules, techniques, and understands. They are related in some since but in a very distant way. Also keep in mind that some Weng Chun practitioners are doing things different these days even within my own lineage. There are some misunderstands amongst tang Yik students. I do not know who is right about these small differences but nonetheless the rules and underlying principle are the same. We are just doing slightly different versions of the same Weng Chun Kuen.


Weng Chun 春拳, the Chinese characters are different than Wing Chun 詠春. Those that are representing Yip Man but calling themselves Everlasting spring or eternal spring are confused. They are not practicing Eternal Spring which originated from one of the training halls at Fei Lo Temple. The style was named after one of the places in the temple. Yip man and Yuen Kay Son are practicing Dr. Leung Jan martial arts; although, there are differences between these two.


In Weng Chun, Internal Power or short range power is developed through a systematic way. It is a direct explanation such that it can be explained by body mechanics. We practice our Internal Weng Chun by using the four Buddhist principle elements of Earth, Water, Fire and Wind.


By Brian Taylor Sifu

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